FORMATION COMMITTEE - REPORTS

31 March 2005 at Preston and 15 July 2005 Noth Luffenham Norfolk

Please note that this information is NOT officially released on this website. It is offered here in an endevour to enhance the communications process to none-serving members of the Regimental Family. The official lines of communication are through the Regimental Secretary and Branch Secretaries.

For ease of following the decision making process the I have added the decisions made at Luffenham immediately below those previously made at Preston. Items that are still under consideration are listed under para 33, Still Under Consideration.

Please note that separate instruction were issued with regards to dress and I will update this notice from that as time permits. If you are really interested in the dress matrix - Click Here

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 0.  Formation Date
 1.  Introduction
 2.  Formation Committee Members
 3.  Colonel in Chief
 4.  Colonel of the Regiment
 5.  Regimental Council
 6.  Identity and Recruiting
 7.  Future of the TA
 8.  Location of RHQ
 9.  Charities and Finance
10. Chattels
11. Private Soldier Title
12. Capbadge
13. Motto
14. Beret
15. Crest
16. Collar Badge
17. Buttons
18. Glider Flash
19. Tactical Recognition Flash
20. Abbreviation
21. Rank and title Slip-ons
22. Colours
23. Stable belt
24. Mess Dress
25. Colours (Regimental and Queens)
26. Regimental Days
27. Journal
28. Music
29. Ecclesiastical
30. Handbook and history
31. Formation Day
32. KORBR Gathering
33. Still Under Consideration
33. Next Meeting
34. Further details

0.  Formation Date

Preston
No Decision

North Luffenham
The planned Formation Date for the new regiment will be 1 July 2006.
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1. Introduction

Preston
The first Formation Committee (FC) was held between the three regiments on 31 Mar 05 at Preston. Each regiment was represented by their Colonel, CO 1st Bn, RSM 1st Bn and Regimental Secretary. The meeting was organised and run extremely well by RHQ Queen's Lancashire Regiment. The meeting was very constructive and conducted without rancour.

Clearly it has to be accepted that the amalgamation is now a fact and we need to resolve how the new regiment will be organised and conduct business. The FC has to look ahead and plan for the future for the serving soldiers but at the same time take forward a fair share of each regiment's heritage. A necessary and sensible compromise has to be reached between us.

The following notes give in outline the decisions made but space precludes giving the full arguments and how trade-offs were achieved. Many items particularly dress will require official approval from the system and 'all is agreed or nothing is agreed' remains extant.

North Luffenham
Further to my last report dated 27 April 2005 on the first Formation Committee (FC) meeting I now give a précis of the main deliberations of the second meeting held at the 1 st Battalion’s barracks North Luffenham on 23 June 2005.

It has become clear to me that some of you are not following the flow of information and the fact that these changes are laid upon us, and are not something we can ignore. I would recommend the Foreword and Editorial in The Lion & The Dragon for further background, albeit somewhat veiled.

We face amalgamation or merger with the KINGS and QLR. This is a merger of three equal parts into one new Regiment incorporating all the traditions and legacy aspects of all past regiments. It is intended that we will have a small outstation office in Carlisle that will keep the KING’S OWN and BORDER traditions alive. Our parades and meetings in May and at Remembrance in November will continue for the foreseeable future.

The title of the new regiment ‘The King’s, Lancashire and Border Regiment’ with the abbreviation ‘LANCS’ was decided by the Army Board. We could not agree a compromise title particularly with the QLR. In the end after appeals to CGS and others by the Colonel of the Regiment, it was the Army Board who chose the title.

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2. Formation Committee Members

Preston
A mechanism for decision making was agreed that confirmed the status of the FC as the authority for amalgamation decisions. The three Regimental Secretaries (RS) using the Regimental Secretaries Steering Group (RSSG) will act as the secretariat. The three Colonels will continue to meet separately. Maj-Gen Ray Pett has been appointed as 'Regimental Wise Man' to act as an arbitrator.

North Luffenham
RSMs of all battalions both regular and TA now attend. Our Colonel is concerned at the lack of TA representation on the FC.
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3. Colonel in Chief

Preston
Action is in hand to confirm the future Colonel-in-Chief and Deputies. HM The Queen is Colonel-in-Chief of the QLR and HRH The Prince of Wales for the KING'S.

North Luffenham
The appointment of the Colonel-in-Chief is still under negotiation, HRH Princess Alexandra has said she would wish to continue the connection in some way.
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4. Colonel of the Regiment

Preston
It was agreed that an outsider would be found to become the new Colonel of the Regiment.

It was agreed that Deputy Colonels to assist in representation would be appointed, but not necessarily become members of the Regtl Council.

North Luffenham
Colonel of the Regiment; an officer from outside the three regiments has been agreed and he has confirmed he would be honoured to accept the position of Colonel. The MS process remains to be completed and until that is done his name must remain on close hold. Three Deputy Colonels will be appointed one by each old regiment. A Hon Colonel of the 4 th Bn will also be appointed.
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5. Regimental Council

Preston
It was confirmed that the FC will evolve to become the new Regimental Council.

North Luffenham
Not minuted - must assume no change
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6. Identity and Recruiting

Preston
The issue of how the regiment would split identity and recruiting between the new battalions was not resolved. We favour 'one regiment not two battalions' as a model so soldiers would be posted across the regiment, without each battalion being given a geographical identity.

North Luffenham
Perhaps the most important issue is the one of regimental identity. After much discussion some of it acrimonious the FC agreed that there would be no distinction between the bns. The Regt would adopt a common corporate identity and one ethos with no distinctions between bns other than the style provided by the command team at the time. This decision necessarily affects the regtl approach to uniform, branding, chattels and recruiting. Recruiting would be across the whole regtl area with no recruiting boundary between the bns. For recruit allocation, whilst operational need would be the overriding consideration, the King’s Division Badging Board would take the individual’s family, friends and sporting preferences into account.
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7. - Future of the TA

Preston
The issue of the future of the TA is still being considered and directly involves HQ Infantry, HQ Land and MOD etc. All three regiments are pushing for a two rather than one TA battalion solution in our area (42 North West Brigade) but the result is by no means certain.

North Luffenham
The Future of the TA infantry in the North West is very sad news. It looks as though the regional brigade (42 North West Brigade) will have only one TA infantry bn. This will incorporate the LCV and parts of the KCR with a reduction to four companies. It is very possible we will only have one company in KORBR country. If this transpires then the Colonel will need to take a decision on the locations of the HQ and platoons, it seems probable that we will be able to keep three platoon locations.
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8. Location of RHQ

Preston
RHQ will be at Preston with it is hoped two outstations at Carlisle and Manchester or Liverpool. There is a review of RHQs underway by the MOD.

North Luffenham
The review of the future structure of RHQ is in hand. Much work on possible options has been done, we are more than hopeful that an outstation will remain at Carlisle.
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9. Charities and Finance

Preston
A central Regimental Charity is recommended from formation date; negotiations with the Charity Commissioners are in hand. The Day's Pay scheme will be reviewed including TA contributions.

North Luffenham
The negotiations with the Charity Commissioners to set up a single Regimental Charity is in hand.

Preston
Chattels; recommended that ownership passes to the new Regimental Charity from formation date. Present Museum Trusts would continue to hold and manage their respective collections.

North Luffenham
The three Regimental Secretaries will visit each regular bn to audit and agree the regimental Chattels. We still seek a solution for the future distribution of regimental property and chattels. The disposal of some items will be done by RHQ in an open and proper manner.
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11. Private Soldier Title

Preston
Title of first rank; it was agreed that all battalions would adopt the unique title 'Kingsman'.

11. North Luffenham
The title Kingsman had been generally accepted
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12. Capbadge

Preston
The Red Rose of Lancaster ensigned with the Queen's Crown surrounded by the Fontenoy Wreath, probably with the Regimental Motto superimposed on the wreath below the Rose.

North Luffenham
Red Rose of Lancaster ensigned with Royal Crown, surrounded by Fontenoy Laurel Wreath with motto ‘Nec Aspera Terrent. Officers to wear the metal issue badge and not a wire embroidered badge. To be confirmed.
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13. Motto

Preston
A adopt the motto of the Royal House of Hanover, used by the KING'S and previously used by all predecessor regiments, 'Nec Aspera Terrent' (Difficulties be Damned).

North Luffenham

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14. Beret

Preston
Beret and backing; brown beret with red diamond.

North Luffenham
Confirmed
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15. Crest

Preston
To be same as the capbadge.

North Luffenham

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16. Collar Badge

Preston
KORBR Lions.

North Luffenham

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17. Buttons

Preston
KING'S Fleur-de-Lys, also for blazer.

North Luffenham

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18. Glider Flash

Preston
To be adopted as worn by KORBR.

North Luffenham

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19. Tactical Recognition Flash(TRF)

Preston
Maroon, Dutch gold, deep green.

19. North Luffenham

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20. Abbreviation

Preston
As directed by the Army Board; 'LANCS'.

North Luffenham
The three regular COs expressed their concerns. Some themes emerged; all agreed the abbreviation LANCS was not particularly liked
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21. Preston - Rank and title Slip-ons
E embroidered maroon on OG or DPM background, title 'LANCS'.

North Luffenham

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22. Preston - Colours
Blue (facings), maroon, Dutch gold and deep green. Tie; maroon, Dutch gold and deep green. Flag; maroon, Dutch gold and deep green with Crest.

North Luffenham
It was considered by some that maroon was perhaps too dominant in the new orders of dress but it was agreed that we should avoid unstitching what had already been decided
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23. Preston - Stable belt
maroon with side-fastening straps.

North Luffenham

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24. Mess Dress

Preston
To be further considered.

North Luffenham

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25. Preston - Colours ( I think they mean The Regimental and The Queens Colours)
Agreement has been reached on an equitable coverage of Battle Honours on both Colours and will be submitted to MOD. Regtl Colour will be on a blue field with The Royal Cypher in the middle, dragon with 'China', and Sphinx will be included, corner devices will be 'Lion', 'White Horse', 'Red Rose with POW's Feathers' and final corner tbc.

North Luffenham
Not minuted - must assume no change
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26. Preston - Regimental Days
More discussion required but probably St George's Day and Somme Day together with battalion days such as Arroyo.

North Luffenham
Still under consideration
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27. Preston - Journal
Last issue of present regtl journals for 2006; first new journal to record 2007.

North Luffenham
Not minuted - must assume no change
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28. Preston - Music
Not yet discussed.

North Luffenham
Still under consideration
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29. Preston - Ecclesiastical
There will be a new regtl Collect; the QLR Regtl Hymn and KORBR Regimental Grace will be adopted.

North Luffenham
Still under consideration
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30. Handbook and history

Preston
Will be produced in draft for Formation Day.

North Luffenham
Not minuted - must assume no change
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31. Formation Day

Preston
Late 2006 or early 2007. Depends on KORBR and KING'S operational tour dates in 2006.

North Luffenham

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32. KORBR Gathering

Preston
They will have a final grand event which could be Arroyo Day 2006.

North Luffenham

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33. Still under consideration

North Luffenham
The following items are still under consideration:

Regimental Days
Music
Drums accoutrements
Association constitution and subscription
Affiliated units and ships
Freedoms
Regimental medal
Allowances to regimental officers
Marketing and recruiting matters.

34. Next Meeting

Preston
The next meeting will be held at North Luffenham on 23 Jun 05.

North Luffenham
The next meeting is at Bourlon Barracks Catterick on 3 Oct 05

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35. Further details

Preston
Further details will emerge over the coming months and I will keep you up to date. Perhaps the most important emerging issues are the manning proposals for the current soldiers in the 1st Battalion and the future of the TA in the KORBR regtl area.

North Luffenham

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